Comments on: Love not Fear: Living by the Four Agreements http://www.bookishdark.com/2007/10/love-not-fear-living-by-the-four-agreements/ She is too fond of books, and it has turned her brain. Sat, 14 Jan 2012 22:31:04 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: CountessZ http://www.bookishdark.com/2007/10/love-not-fear-living-by-the-four-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-2217 CountessZ Mon, 15 Oct 2007 16:38:53 +0000 http://www.bookishdark.com/?p=131#comment-2217 What an excellent post! I particularly liked the line: "For too long, fear of failure held me back. Failure itself didn’t hold me back — the fear of it did. When I actually try something and fail, I generally get right back up and do it again, but better the second time. I pursue it until I succeed. But often I convince myself that I can’t do something because I’m going to fail at it, so I don’t even bother to try." The thing I liked most about the "fear of/fear for" concept was that it allows for the presence of fear, which is a very useful and natural human emotion, but provides a different direction for the application of the emotion. Or maybe a different motivation. Anyway, the journey continues... What an excellent post! I particularly liked the line: “For too long, fear of failure held me back. Failure itself didn’t hold me back — the fear of it did. When I actually try something and fail, I generally get right back up and do it again, but better the second time. I pursue it until I succeed. But often I convince myself that I can’t do something because I’m going to fail at it, so I don’t even bother to try.”

The thing I liked most about the “fear of/fear for” concept was that it allows for the presence of fear, which is a very useful and natural human emotion, but provides a different direction for the application of the emotion. Or maybe a different motivation.

Anyway, the journey continues…

]]> By: kaizerin http://www.bookishdark.com/2007/10/love-not-fear-living-by-the-four-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-2213 kaizerin Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:39:19 +0000 http://www.bookishdark.com/?p=131#comment-2213 C--that's a powerful transformation of thought--from the common, animal response of fear for one's own safety, to the bigger picture of "who's really in trouble here?" I can see where living in that mindset would be very liberating. CZ--now that you've brought up the topic of fear, it's popping up everywhere in my field of view. I was reading the Get Rich Slowly blog on a completely unrelated topic, and found this <a href="http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/06/13/the-power-of-yes-a-simple-way-to-get-more-out-of-life/">older post </a>that spoke right to the issues you've raised lately about stepping outside the comfort zone and living beyond your fears. C–that’s a powerful transformation of thought–from the common, animal response of fear for one’s own safety, to the bigger picture of “who’s really in trouble here?” I can see where living in that mindset would be very liberating.

CZ–now that you’ve brought up the topic of fear, it’s popping up everywhere in my field of view. I was reading the Get Rich Slowly blog on a completely unrelated topic, and found this older post that spoke right to the issues you’ve raised lately about stepping outside the comfort zone and living beyond your fears.

]]> By: Corvus http://www.bookishdark.com/2007/10/love-not-fear-living-by-the-four-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-2211 Corvus Sat, 13 Oct 2007 21:08:12 +0000 http://www.bookishdark.com/?p=131#comment-2211 It was the mid-nineties and I was living in the Uptown area of Minneapolis. One weekend, I found myself walking home from some party that no longer held my interest. The party was somewhere north of downtown. It was a long walk (something I used to do quite often) and I was in a philosophical mood. As I crossed Franklin Ave I saw a drug deal going down in a parking lot. I saw the trio of young men at the same time they saw me. We all did a rapid assessment of the situation. One of them had his hand up under his hoodie at his waist. I emanated every casual disinterested vibe I could muster. After all, I don't believe that anyone else's decision to do drugs is any of my business. I honestly just don't care... Once I was able to relax, I suddenly realized how badly I felt for those three guys. The thought that they were making choices which led to them feeling threatened <em>by me</em>, seemed to be a tragedy. I was afraid for them. For what they might do to themselves, or to someone else, because of their own fear and insecurities. The worst, I figured, they could do to me was kill me. After I was dead, there wasn't much more they <em>could</em> do that I'd notice. They, on the other hand, would have to live with having killed me for the rest of their lives. I considered (and still do) that to be a fate far worse than death. Living with having killed someone? Slowly removing pieces of your own humanity because you felt so threatened by someone else? Terrible. About a block away, I started laughing a bit. I had just walked through a tense and potentially dangerous situation and spent the whole time worrying about the humanity of other people involved. If felt really damn good. I felt free. I felt happy. And that's when it hit me--instead of being afraid <em>of</em> them, I had felt afraid <em>for</em> them. Instead of my fear pushing me further away from them, conceptually speaking, it drew me closer to them. Instead of my fear ultimately leading to my hating of them, it would lead to my loving of them. Fear <em>of</em> == hate. Fear <em>for</em> == love. I vowed to always try to fear <em>for</em> whenever I felt fear again. I have a fortune from a cookie on my desk. It used to live in the little plastic window of my wallet, before I started making paper wallets. It reads, "A Fearless Person Cannot Be Controlled." I like it, but it isn't strictly true in my experience. A person who does not experience "fear of" cannot be controlled. A person who experiences "fear for" is almost always the one <em>in</em> control. It was the mid-nineties and I was living in the Uptown area of Minneapolis. One weekend, I found myself walking home from some party that no longer held my interest. The party was somewhere north of downtown. It was a long walk (something I used to do quite often) and I was in a philosophical mood.

As I crossed Franklin Ave I saw a drug deal going down in a parking lot. I saw the trio of young men at the same time they saw me. We all did a rapid assessment of the situation. One of them had his hand up under his hoodie at his waist. I emanated every casual disinterested vibe I could muster. After all, I don’t believe that anyone else’s decision to do drugs is any of my business. I honestly just don’t care…

Once I was able to relax, I suddenly realized how badly I felt for those three guys. The thought that they were making choices which led to them feeling threatened by me, seemed to be a tragedy. I was afraid for them. For what they might do to themselves, or to someone else, because of their own fear and insecurities. The worst, I figured, they could do to me was kill me. After I was dead, there wasn’t much more they could do that I’d notice. They, on the other hand, would have to live with having killed me for the rest of their lives.

I considered (and still do) that to be a fate far worse than death. Living with having killed someone? Slowly removing pieces of your own humanity because you felt so threatened by someone else? Terrible.

About a block away, I started laughing a bit. I had just walked through a tense and potentially dangerous situation and spent the whole time worrying about the humanity of other people involved. If felt really damn good. I felt free. I felt happy.

And that’s when it hit me–instead of being afraid of them, I had felt afraid for them. Instead of my fear pushing me further away from them, conceptually speaking, it drew me closer to them. Instead of my fear ultimately leading to my hating of them, it would lead to my loving of them. Fear of == hate. Fear for == love. I vowed to always try to fear for whenever I felt fear again.

I have a fortune from a cookie on my desk. It used to live in the little plastic window of my wallet, before I started making paper wallets. It reads, “A Fearless Person Cannot Be Controlled.” I like it, but it isn’t strictly true in my experience. A person who does not experience “fear of” cannot be controlled. A person who experiences “fear for” is almost always the one in control.

]]> By: Ramona http://www.bookishdark.com/2007/10/love-not-fear-living-by-the-four-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-2210 Ramona Sat, 13 Oct 2007 02:04:27 +0000 http://www.bookishdark.com/?p=131#comment-2210 Kai - I'm certain they still make peignoirs. Do you remember the old lavendar one you used to dress up in? I, too am looking forward to the "fear of", "fear for" discussion. Being involved in a 12 step program helped me alot in letting go of fears. Mostly fears that something would happen to my children. Worrying about something that may never happen is a waste of time. Time that is better spent reading, knitting, working, doing anything one enjoys. Kai – I’m certain they still make peignoirs. Do you remember the old lavendar one you used to dress up in?
I, too am looking forward to the “fear of”, “fear for” discussion.
Being involved in a 12 step program helped me alot in letting go of fears. Mostly fears that something would happen to my children. Worrying about something that may never happen is a waste of time. Time that is better spent reading, knitting, working, doing anything one enjoys.

]]> By: kaizerin http://www.bookishdark.com/2007/10/love-not-fear-living-by-the-four-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-2209 kaizerin Fri, 12 Oct 2007 17:07:12 +0000 http://www.bookishdark.com/?p=131#comment-2209 Also: nice kick-off for the 2nd Annual "What Scares You?" discussion! It's Halloween time, and as ever, I'm in the frame of mind for foggy nights, lurking shadows, and shivery chills down the spine! Ooh, you know what I'm really in the mood for? A Vincent Price movie marathon. A whole day of V.P. at his elegant, creepy best, romancing and/or menacing a series of beautiful women clad in flowing peignoirs, in and around decrepit manor houses. Do they still make peignoirs? I feel compelled to be dressed appropriately when AMC kicks in with its 13 Nights of Halloween festival. :-) Also: nice kick-off for the 2nd Annual “What Scares You?” discussion! It’s Halloween time, and as ever, I’m in the frame of mind for foggy nights, lurking shadows, and shivery chills down the spine!

Ooh, you know what I’m really in the mood for? A Vincent Price movie marathon. A whole day of V.P. at his elegant, creepy best, romancing and/or menacing a series of beautiful women clad in flowing peignoirs, in and around decrepit manor houses.

Do they still make peignoirs? I feel compelled to be dressed appropriately when AMC kicks in with its 13 Nights of Halloween festival. :-)

]]> By: kaizerin http://www.bookishdark.com/2007/10/love-not-fear-living-by-the-four-agreements/comment-page-1/#comment-2208 kaizerin Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:57:01 +0000 http://www.bookishdark.com/?p=131#comment-2208 I have to admit, that book was given to me some years ago, and I didn't get too far into it before thrusting it away from me forcefully. However, its major points, as you have boiled them down, are quite valuable. You know how sometimes, when you hear a piece of advice that really clicks with you, it sort of rings around in your head and you never forget who said it, and where and when? That bit about not taking things personally, about recognizing that the things people say and do are about themselves, not you, reminds me of something my wise ol' stepdad, Bubba, once said. He told me it was a waste of time putting a lot energy into 'getting even' with people for the slights and injuries they had caused me; in his experience, most people were doing a pretty good job of punishing themselves already. It was like the whole world turned around and I was looking at it from the opposite side. I'm not here to set you straight, I'm here to take care of my own business. And anyway, there's nothing I can do to hurt you that can even compare to the damage you do yourself. It made me think about the things I do to hurt and undermine myself; it made me recognize that I could never face an enemy greater than my own self, and I needed to be on my own side, first. (Bookish tie-in: Carolyn Baker's "Reclaiming the Dark Feminine: the Price of Desire" is a fantastic book for getting a handle on the ways we undermine our own happiness.) Coupled with your book's advice that the insult or injury was never about me in the first place, that's a lot of freeing up from other people's issues. I'm interested in hearing more about "fear of" and "fear for". I suspect it will link nicely with a discussion Carter and I had years ago about freedom as a motivator, and whether we were motivated by 'freedom from' or 'freedom to'. I have to admit, that book was given to me some years ago, and I didn’t get too far into it before thrusting it away from me forcefully. However, its major points, as you have boiled them down, are quite valuable.

You know how sometimes, when you hear a piece of advice that really clicks with you, it sort of rings around in your head and you never forget who said it, and where and when? That bit about not taking things personally, about recognizing that the things people say and do are about themselves, not you, reminds me of something my wise ol’ stepdad, Bubba, once said. He told me it was a waste of time putting a lot energy into ‘getting even’ with people for the slights and injuries they had caused me; in his experience, most people were doing a pretty good job of punishing themselves already.

It was like the whole world turned around and I was looking at it from the opposite side. I’m not here to set you straight, I’m here to take care of my own business. And anyway, there’s nothing I can do to hurt you that can even compare to the damage you do yourself. It made me think about the things I do to hurt and undermine myself; it made me recognize that I could never face an enemy greater than my own self, and I needed to be on my own side, first. (Bookish tie-in: Carolyn Baker’s “Reclaiming the Dark Feminine: the Price of Desire” is a fantastic book for getting a handle on the ways we undermine our own happiness.)

Coupled with your book’s advice that the insult or injury was never about me in the first place, that’s a lot of freeing up from other people’s issues.

I’m interested in hearing more about “fear of” and “fear for”. I suspect it will link nicely with a discussion Carter and I had years ago about freedom as a motivator, and whether we were motivated by ‘freedom from’ or ‘freedom to’.

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