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	<title>Comments on: Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood</title>
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	<link>http://www.bookishdark.com/2008/10/oryx-and-crake-by-margaret-atwood/</link>
	<description>She is too fond of books, and it has turned her brain.</description>
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		<title>By: CountessZ</title>
		<link>http://www.bookishdark.com/2008/10/oryx-and-crake-by-margaret-atwood/comment-page-1/#comment-3313</link>
		<dc:creator>CountessZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 15:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookishdark.com/?p=322#comment-3313</guid>
		<description>Like you, Corvus, I tend to enjoy books, movies, etc., that feature unreliable narrators--when they are done well (Offred, from Handmaid&#039;s Tale is considered an unreliable narrator, after all). But not so much with this book. Perhaps it is as you say, and as I suspected in the first place, her unfamiliarity working with a male lead? Or more than that, perhaps it was her need for a less dimensional character that led her to her choice?

When asked why she chose a male protagonist for Oryx and Crake (her first and only male lead--so far), she said:

&quot;Snowman did present himself to me, yes, dirty bedsheet and all. For this novel, a woman would have been less possible. Or let&#039;s say that the story would have been quite different. If we are writers, we all have multiple selves. Also, I&#039;ve known a lot of male people in my life, so I had a lot to draw on.&quot;

I find the dirty bedsheet reference particularly interesting, which suggests to me that Snowman is a descendant of one of the greatest unreliable narrators of all time, Ignatius J. Reilly. Unfortunately, he is just not implemented so artfully. 

I also find it interesting that she feels the book would have been &quot;less possible&quot; with a female lead. I suspect she would have had a harder time creating a shallow female character outside of the filter of a male protagonist&#039;s view. Oryx, after all is rather dull, but remember, we only see her through Snowman&#039;s eyes. And he does not strike us as the  most enlightened of fellows. In fact, he has that neanderthal protective bullshit going on, and appears to never really believe what she says. For all we know, Oryx was a fascinatingly complex creature, and Crake too, but Atwood chose to give them to us through Snowman, and his unreliable and unremarkable mind flattened them out and made them the simple creatures necessary for this future. 

We find it easy to envision a Jimmy (Snowman&#039;s real name). We know him. He is the default characterization of a &quot;guy&quot; that is in every sitcom, frat house, and corporate office in the Western world. 

Even if she tried to give us this dystopian future through the eyes of a Paris Hilton or Britney Spears, the female equivalent to the shallow male, I think she would have found it hard not to give her some dimension under all the layers of fluff and nonsense. Which is not to say that she didn&#039;t try to give Snowman layers, but in the end, it wasn&#039;t enough for me. I still didn&#039;t care about him on top of not trusting him. The story didn&#039;t reveal anything to me or help me see the world in a different way. It was a classic cautionary tale about technology and science practiced simply &quot;because we can&quot; without asking if we should. This idea has been explored elsewhere and been done better. 

Oh dear, I&#039;ve talked myself back to dissatisfaction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like you, Corvus, I tend to enjoy books, movies, etc., that feature unreliable narrators&#8211;when they are done well (Offred, from Handmaid&#8217;s Tale is considered an unreliable narrator, after all). But not so much with this book. Perhaps it is as you say, and as I suspected in the first place, her unfamiliarity working with a male lead? Or more than that, perhaps it was her need for a less dimensional character that led her to her choice?</p>
<p>When asked why she chose a male protagonist for Oryx and Crake (her first and only male lead&#8211;so far), she said:</p>
<p>&#8220;Snowman did present himself to me, yes, dirty bedsheet and all. For this novel, a woman would have been less possible. Or let&#8217;s say that the story would have been quite different. If we are writers, we all have multiple selves. Also, I&#8217;ve known a lot of male people in my life, so I had a lot to draw on.&#8221;</p>
<p>I find the dirty bedsheet reference particularly interesting, which suggests to me that Snowman is a descendant of one of the greatest unreliable narrators of all time, Ignatius J. Reilly. Unfortunately, he is just not implemented so artfully. </p>
<p>I also find it interesting that she feels the book would have been &#8220;less possible&#8221; with a female lead. I suspect she would have had a harder time creating a shallow female character outside of the filter of a male protagonist&#8217;s view. Oryx, after all is rather dull, but remember, we only see her through Snowman&#8217;s eyes. And he does not strike us as the  most enlightened of fellows. In fact, he has that neanderthal protective bullshit going on, and appears to never really believe what she says. For all we know, Oryx was a fascinatingly complex creature, and Crake too, but Atwood chose to give them to us through Snowman, and his unreliable and unremarkable mind flattened them out and made them the simple creatures necessary for this future. </p>
<p>We find it easy to envision a Jimmy (Snowman&#8217;s real name). We know him. He is the default characterization of a &#8220;guy&#8221; that is in every sitcom, frat house, and corporate office in the Western world. </p>
<p>Even if she tried to give us this dystopian future through the eyes of a Paris Hilton or Britney Spears, the female equivalent to the shallow male, I think she would have found it hard not to give her some dimension under all the layers of fluff and nonsense. Which is not to say that she didn&#8217;t try to give Snowman layers, but in the end, it wasn&#8217;t enough for me. I still didn&#8217;t care about him on top of not trusting him. The story didn&#8217;t reveal anything to me or help me see the world in a different way. It was a classic cautionary tale about technology and science practiced simply &#8220;because we can&#8221; without asking if we should. This idea has been explored elsewhere and been done better. </p>
<p>Oh dear, I&#8217;ve talked myself back to dissatisfaction.</p>
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		<title>By: Corvus</title>
		<link>http://www.bookishdark.com/2008/10/oryx-and-crake-by-margaret-atwood/comment-page-1/#comment-3300</link>
		<dc:creator>Corvus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 17:41:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookishdark.com/?p=322#comment-3300</guid>
		<description>I actually really like untrustworthy narrators when they&#039;re done well. One of my favorite Atwood novels, &lt;em&gt;Robber Bride&lt;/em&gt;, is relayed entirely through the emotional wreckage of three main untrustworthy narrators--not because they&#039;re lying to us, but because they are all lying to themselves.

It is only by contrasting the three characters&#039; accounts that the reader is able to build their own interpretation of events.

I actually chalk O&amp;C&#039;s failure up to Atwood&#039;s inexperience in writing from the male perspective. I don&#039;t know if I&#039;ve read anyone who can write from such a solid variety of feminine viewpoints, but I just didn&#039;t buy Snowman as anything other than a plot device.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually really like untrustworthy narrators when they&#8217;re done well. One of my favorite Atwood novels, <em>Robber Bride</em>, is relayed entirely through the emotional wreckage of three main untrustworthy narrators&#8211;not because they&#8217;re lying to us, but because they are all lying to themselves.</p>
<p>It is only by contrasting the three characters&#8217; accounts that the reader is able to build their own interpretation of events.</p>
<p>I actually chalk O&#038;C&#8217;s failure up to Atwood&#8217;s inexperience in writing from the male perspective. I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;ve read anyone who can write from such a solid variety of feminine viewpoints, but I just didn&#8217;t buy Snowman as anything other than a plot device.</p>
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		<title>By: CountessZ</title>
		<link>http://www.bookishdark.com/2008/10/oryx-and-crake-by-margaret-atwood/comment-page-1/#comment-3299</link>
		<dc:creator>CountessZ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 14:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookishdark.com/?p=322#comment-3299</guid>
		<description>Great observation! That is EXACTLY it. He was completely untrustworthy. Which means, for all we know, Oryx and Crake were both figments of his imagination and the undoing of the world was all his. (Or maybe I&#039;ve seen Fight Club one too many times?) Ultimately, though, that sense of unease at not being able to trust our tour guide was another layer that made it hard for me to find the book satisfying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great observation! That is EXACTLY it. He was completely untrustworthy. Which means, for all we know, Oryx and Crake were both figments of his imagination and the undoing of the world was all his. (Or maybe I&#8217;ve seen Fight Club one too many times?) Ultimately, though, that sense of unease at not being able to trust our tour guide was another layer that made it hard for me to find the book satisfying.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken... Just Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.bookishdark.com/2008/10/oryx-and-crake-by-margaret-atwood/comment-page-1/#comment-3297</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken... Just Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:17:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.bookishdark.com/?p=322#comment-3297</guid>
		<description>I finished this book so long ago that it just has a dream-like quality when I try to remember specific scenes.  But then again, it didn&#039;t have that much of an effect on me when I read it.   

I found that I didn&#039;t believe the narrator when he was telling his tale... I wasn&#039;t sure he believed what he was saying himself.   

It made me uncomfortable throughout the book, I don&#039;t like untrustworthy narrators.  I never believed that Oryx was who he thought she was.  

But, as I say, I&#039;m really fuzzy on the details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I finished this book so long ago that it just has a dream-like quality when I try to remember specific scenes.  But then again, it didn&#8217;t have that much of an effect on me when I read it.   </p>
<p>I found that I didn&#8217;t believe the narrator when he was telling his tale&#8230; I wasn&#8217;t sure he believed what he was saying himself.   </p>
<p>It made me uncomfortable throughout the book, I don&#8217;t like untrustworthy narrators.  I never believed that Oryx was who he thought she was.  </p>
<p>But, as I say, I&#8217;m really fuzzy on the details.</p>
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